David Sheepshanks On Ipswich Town, Sir Bobby Robson, And Driving The Development Of St George’s Park

David Sheepshanks On Ipswich Town, Sir Bobby Robson, And Driving The Development Of St George’s Park An interview with David Sheepshanks, by Callum McFadden for WFi . Your new book, Man on a Mission , looks back over your time as chairman of Ipswich Town and later chairman of the Football League. When you reflect on those roles, what are the achievements you are proudest of? “I think with Ipswich Town there were a couple. First of all, when I became chairman, the club was flat as a pancake. “We had just been relegated from the Premier League in 1995. We had been beaten 9-0 by Manchester United, which is something I always have to remind people about because I was there in 1980 when we beat them 6-0 and missed two penalties. But nevertheless, that defeat was awful. We were the butt of every pub joke, and we had been relegated with a bang. “George Burley, who was one of your fellow Scots, was a wonderful man. It wasn’t his fault we were relegated, and we knew he was the right person to take us forward. He was one for the future. “I had spent almost nine years as a director before becoming chairman. That doesn’t happen much these days. I was appointed when I was 34, so I was 43 by the time I became chairman, but I had spent that time understanding the club, what was right and what needed to change. “It was also a period of huge change in football. When I joined the board in the 1986/87 season, it wasn’t a big money game. The Premier League didn’t exist. By the time I became chairman in 1995, the Premier League had been formed, and Ipswich had been founder members. “The game had changed completely. It was becoming increasingly professional and football clubs needed to become professional organisations as well. “Our on-field performance was obviously what supporters cared about, but off the field we needed to professionalise too. George Burley did a phenomenal job on the pitch, but we had to build the foundations around that. “It wasn’t always easy. There were times when we were near the bottom of the table, and supporters were asking why we were sticking with George. But we stayed together, and eventually we got there. “In the end, we reached the play-offs in four successive seasons. We missed out by a point in the first year, then we lost in the semi-finals three years running before finally winning at Wembley in 2000 against Barnsley. That was a phenomenal occasion. “So, one achievement was that five-year period of rebuilding and professionalising the club, both on and off the pitch, and creating that feeling of ‘one team, one dream’. “We became a very united club. We invested in the community and every aspect of what makes a successful football club, probably except for money because we never had any. “We were always having to sell players. Each year we lost in the play-offs, I remember journalists putting a microphone in front of me and saying, ‘David, that’s it, isn’t it? You’re going to have to tell the fans the truth. You don’t have any money. You’ll have to sell your best players.’ “They would say we had to sell Kieron Dyer, or Mauricio Taricco, or whoever it was at the time, and I would have to look supporters in the eye and say: ‘We’re all hurting today, but believe me, we will come again.’ “We might have to sell, but we might be able to buy even better players and build an even stronger team. We had to believe that, and then we had to prove it. “And we did.” That journey eventually led to promotion at Wembley and then an incredible first season back in the Premier League , finishing fifth and qualifying for Europe. How special was that period? “It was incredible. During those years we signed Matt Holland to be our ‘Captain Courageous’, and he was fantastic. We brought in characters like Jim Magilton, Tony Mowbray, Mark Venus, John McGreal, David Johnson, Marcus Stewart and many others. “The signing of Marcus Stewart was a huge moment. We used the money from selling Kieron Dyer to bring him in from Huddersfield for around £2.5 million, and he scored goals, including in the play-off final. “He then scored 17 goals in the Premier League in our first season, which was remarkable. “The following year, credit goes to George Burley and the players. We hardly signed anyone. We brought in Hermann Hreiðarsson, who was known as ‘The Herminator’, Alan Armstrong, and we made Martin Reuser’s loan move permanent. “That was pretty much it. Yet we finished fifth in the Premier League. “We had incredible momentum, but then we had European football as well, and it became too much too quickly.” One of the unforgettable moments from that European adventure was beating Inter Milan. Looking back now, how special was that occasion? “It was extraordinary. Beating Inter Milan at Portman Road in November 2001 was a phenomenal occasion. “We were struggling badly in the league, and it felt like all our form and all our luck had been saved for Europe. It was a bizarre season. “Alun Armstrong scored in both games. Then we went to Milan and took 9,500 fans from Suffolk with us. “I remember standing in the Piazza Duomo, outside the cathedral, and seeing thousands and thousands of supporters in blue and white. “They were coming up saying, ‘Hello David, great to see you here,’ and it was just brilliant. “I always tell the funny story about one supporter who came up to me and pointed at the light at the top of the spire. He said, ‘See that light bulb up there? How do you reckon they change that when it goes out?’ “That summed up the Suffolk sense of humour. “It was a glorious day. I remember being in the San Siro after the game when their fans had gone. They had beaten us 4-1, Ronaldo scored, and we were well beaten. “But our 9,500 supporters were locked in at one end, and they were singing, ‘Shit ground, no fans, shit ground, no fans.’ “They had plenty of fans, of course, but our supporters had a wonderful sense of humour. It was a brilliant experience.” After the highs of the Premier League and European football, Ipswich then experienced a very difficult period following relegation. You describe that recovery period as one of your proudest achievements. Why was that? “Indeed. Perversely, the fourth achievement I’m proudest of came out of real difficulty. “We were relegated at the worst possible time. It was a perfect storm. The Premier League market had collapsed, ITV Digital went bust, and all three clubs relegated that year ended up in financial trouble: Leicester, Derby and ourselves. “It was hell. It was really, really difficult. “It was also the first year of the August 31 transfer deadline, so you couldn’t trade your way out of problems like clubs had done previously. We were all suddenly facing a completely different financial landscape. “Although I worked with a wonderful board of directors and we all stood shoulder to shoulder, I was the front man. I took responsibility publicly and said: ‘If you back me, I will take responsibility for the recovery.’ “I felt we had been dealt a very rough hand by fate. It wasn’t because we had been reckless or irresponsible. We had sensible financial plans, but suddenly the market collapsed, and players we had invested millions in were worth a fraction of that. “We were between a rock and a hard place. We had to sell players for far less than they were worth. “I remember Hermann Hreiðarsson. We had paid £4.5 million for him, and he was worth every penny. Yet only a couple of years later, we sold him for less than £1 million because of the circumstances. “So rebuilding the club, getting it back on its feet and ensuring Ipswich survived was something I was incredibly proud of. “I always believed I had a responsibility to leave the club in a better position than when I found it. That took years of hard work, raising money, finding investors and making difficult decisions. “Eventually, the board recognised that the landscape had changed and that finding new investment was the right thing for Ipswich. “To be competitive in the Championship at that time, you needed to be able to lose a minimum of £5 million a year. That might not sound huge now, but if you don’t have that money, it’s a massive challenge. “We were constantly trying to find smart deals and operate within our means. Joe Royle came in and did a wonderful job, then Jim Magilton was appointed as a young manager and was doing equally well. “We were fifth in the Championship at Christmas 2007 when we agreed to sell the club to Marcus Evans.” The sale of Ipswich Town to Marcus Evans was a big moment for yourself and for Ipswich. With the benefit of hindsight, is there anything you would have done differently? “No, not really. I genuinely believe we tried everything. “I can honestly look myself in the mirror and say we turned every stone. We looked everywhere, and we explored every possibility. “It’s very different today. When you look at Ipswich now, with the phenomenal investment that has gone into the club through the American ownership group, it is chalk and cheese. It is unrecognisable compared to where we were. “You’ve also got Ed Sheeran becoming a huge supporter and investor, the profile that brings, and the commercial opportunities around the club now. “But back then, that money simply wasn’t there. It wasn’t because people weren’t willing to invest. The financial landscape was different. “There was some interest from overseas, including a Far Eastern group, but Marcus Evans was the best deal available to us. “To be fair to Marcus, he did everything he said he would do. He invested significant money, somewhere in the region of £60-80 million in the first few years. “The fact that things didn’t work out later is another matter. He appointed Roy Keane and then Paul Jewell, and unfortunately those decisions didn’t bring the success everyone hoped for. “But I don’t regret the decision. “I think it was the right decision at the time because we had reached a point where we needed somebody who could take the club forward. “Of course, it didn’t end well. The club was relegated to League One, and supporters were understandably worried. But then Mark Ashton came in with the American ownership group and what they have achieved over the last few years has been phenomenal. “I do feel frustration looking back, but not regret. You have to judge decisions based on the information you have at the time. “I always tried to make the best calls I could. You win some, and you lose some. “When we finished fifth in the Premier League and qualified for Europe, I felt that if we had greater resources behind us, we could have become something similar to Brighton, Bournemouth or Brentford. “But we didn’t have that financial backing, and relegation came with a huge cost. “When Ipswich were relegated more recently, it was disappointing, but financially they could recover. They went straight back up because the resources were there. “I look back and think that if we had been able to access those resources at that time, perhaps we could have followed a similar path. “But you can’t rewrite history.” One of the most influential figures in Ipswich Town’s history is Sir Bobby Robson, who returned to the club as honorary president during your time as chairman. How special was he and what did he mean to Ipswich? “He was an exceptional man. “I’ve been very fortunate to know some extraordinary managers. You would probably put Sir Bobby Robson, Sir Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola among the greatest who have ever lived. “But Bobby was ours. “Newcastle supporters and Ipswich supporters share him because he was such a special person. He was passionate, he was a winner, and he cared so deeply. “He was incredibly kind to me. I didn’t actually work with him as manager because by the time I became chairman he was managing elsewhere, but he was always there at the end of the phone if I needed advice. “He couldn’t have been more supportive. “I became an Ipswich supporter when Bobby was already part of the club’s story. When he became manager in 1968, the first few years were difficult. “There was even a ‘Sack Bobby Robson’ campaign from some supporters, but the Cobbold family showed incredible belief in him. When Bobby thought he was going to be dismissed, they actually gave him a new contract. “That decision changed everything. “From then on, Ipswich became one of the best teams in the country. We were in Europe nine years out of ten from around 1973 to 1982. “If there had been a Champions League in those days, we would probably have qualified six times. “We won the UEFA Cup, we won the FA Cup, and we finished runners-up in what would now be the Premier League twice. “We had household names: Paul Mariner, Mick Mills, Terry Butcher, George Burley, Arnold Mühren, Frans Thijssen, Alan Brazil, Eric Gates and so many more. “European nights at Portman Road were incredible. The best players in the world came to Ipswich. Johan Cruyff, Günter Netzer and Michel Platini all played there. “For a club like Ipswich, that was extraordinary. “Bobby Robson made all of that happen.” The final major theme of Man on a Mission is your role in developing St George’s Park, which has become one of the most important projects in English football over the last few decades. How proud are you to see that vision become a reality and contribute to England’s progress? “I’m hugely proud, but it was a team effort. I can’t emphasise that strongly enough. “I was the person lucky enough to be chosen to lead it, but it would never have happened without all the people involved. “I spend a lot of my time now coaching younger leaders, mostly in business but also in sport, and one of my main messages about leadership is that you have to surround yourself with people who do things better than you. “That is exactly what happened at St George’s Park. I was fortunate to have an incredible team around me. “At the beginning, it wasn’t even called St George’s Park. It was the National Football Centre, and it was something many people thought would never happen. “It was ridiculed by sections of the media and even parts of football. Some people within the Premier League didn’t want it built. “They would say, ‘We already have world-class academies and training grounds. We don’t need a national one.’ “My response was that view was too club-centric. Of course clubs need their own facilities, and I completely support that, but this was about England. “Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Everton, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham all have incredible facilities, but this needed to be England-centric. “That is why it had to be in the middle of the country, so it was accessible to everyone.” Looking at the success England teams have enjoyed since St George’s Park opened, how important has that environment been in changing the culture around the national teams? “I think it has been a catalyst for high performance and for winning England teams. “It took people like Gareth Southgate, who deserves enormous credit, along with John McDermott and Dan Ashworth before him, to really change the way England came together. “Previously, you almost had groups of players from different clubs arriving and sitting in their own corners. They were individuals coming together. “What changed was that England became a team. “It was run like a club. St George’s Park became their home. “I always say places don’t win anything, people do, but St George’s Park created the environment where those people could succeed. “Sadly, Gareth wasn’t able to win one of those two finals, but to take England to two major finals was a remarkable achievement. “Then you look at what has happened elsewhere. Sarina Wiegman has won the European Championship with the women’s team. Lee Carsley has won the Under-21 European Championship twice. “We are now getting closer and closer. “We haven’t won the World Cup, but we have come very close. If you believe, as I do, in continuous improvement and marginal gains, then you believe that if you keep improving and keep committing to that process, eventually you will succeed. “I think England will win. “St George’s Park has been a catalyst for that, and I also hope it continues to raise standards in coach education, which is hugely important.” After nearly 25 years in football leadership, from Ipswich Town to the Football League and St George’s Park, what lessons have you learned about leading organisations in the modern game? “I think the biggest lesson is that football is about people. “You need talented people, but you also need the right culture and environment around them. “At Ipswich, we built something where everyone felt part of the same journey. It was about creating belief and unity. “At St George’s Park, it was about creating a place where people could come together and achieve something bigger than themselves. “Leadership is about having a vision, but it is also about bringing people with you. “You cannot do everything yourself. The best leaders surround themselves with people who are better than them in different areas. “Football has changed enormously since I first became involved. The money, the global attention and the pressures are all on a different scale now. “But the fundamentals remain the same. “You need good people, you need a clear purpose, and you need to make decisions based on what is right, not just what is popular. “I’ve been incredibly fortunate to have been part of so many special moments, from Ipswich’s journey back to the Premier League, European nights against teams like Inter Milan, to seeing St George’s Park become a reality. “Football gives you extraordinary highs, but it also gives you difficult moments. The important thing is how you respond to both.”