Lawrie Sanchez On Northern Ireland, Wimbledon, Fulham And The Changing Face Of Football

Lawrie Sanchez On Northern Ireland, Wimbledon, Fulham And The Changing Face Of Football An interview with Lawrie Sanchez, by Callum McFadden for WFi . When UEFA announced the expansion of the European Championship to 24 teams for Euro 2016, you said it would give Northern Ireland a great opportunity to qualify. With the World Cup now expanded to 48 teams, what did you make of the format? “When they extended the Euros, I said it would be a great opportunity for Northern Ireland to qualify, which they did under Michael O’Neill. “With 48 teams at the World Cup, almost a quarter of the world’s national teams are involved. Having seen the tournament play out, I think it proved that smaller nations can compete. “I watched two of Cape Verde’s three group games, and they were fantastic. Curaçao also had some good moments, despite a difficult result against Germany. I worried beforehand that there might be some silly scorelines that would devalue the tournament, but that wasn’t really the case. “I think it was a great idea. There were 10 African countries involved, and several reached the last 32. It was good for football at the smaller end. “The minnows of 20 years ago aren’t necessarily minnows now. They might still be considered that, but they have professional players who understand structure and organisation. Paraguay had players in the Premier League and across Europe’s top five leagues. These aren’t teams made up of farmers who have come straight out of the fields to play football. They’re professionals who know what they’re doing, and Cape Verde showed what can be achieved.” You took Northern Ireland as high as 27th in the world and secured memorable results against England, Spain, Portugal and Denmark. What was the key to that success? “The more I watched Cape Verde, the more I could see that they all knew their jobs. They defended and attacked well, had great athleticism and could move from front to back very quickly. “Pace is a tremendous asset in the modern game. With Northern Ireland, I had Keith Gillespie towards the end of his career. He still had enough pace to run past people, dribble and get to the byline to deliver a cross. “That ability to beat defenders is becoming a lost art. Wingers today are often on the wrong foot, cutting inside rather than getting to the byline. In our day, a right-footed winger wanted to reach the byline and deliver a decent cross.” David Healy always seemed to deliver on the big occasion. What made him such a prolific goalscorer for Northern Ireland? “I saw David at a dinner in Northern Ireland recently, and he thanked me for everything I’d done for him. To be fair, he did more for me than I did for him. His goalscoring was phenomenal. “He wasn’t the biggest or the quickest, but you just had to give him an opportunity around the six-yard box, and he would hit the target. “I remember watching a training session when he was shooting against Maik Taylor, my first-choice goalkeeper. Everybody else had finished, but David kept shooting. Eventually, I told Dave Beasant to go across and replace Maik because David was destroying him. He was bending shots and hitting the target every time. “We needed to give him opportunities. We had James Quinn alongside him, the traditional big-man, little-man combination. James would flick balls on, create chances and take defenders away from David. “Once you got him in the box, you knew he would make the goalkeeper work. His record for Northern Ireland will be incredibly difficult to beat.” What was the biggest adjustment when you moved from club management at Wycombe to international management with Northern Ireland? “The players weren’t my players. They sometimes felt they were doing you a favour by turning up for Northern Ireland, whereas their club was their main job. “If they had a knock, some would pull out because they didn’t want to miss games for their clubs. To a certain extent, I understood that. “My job was to create a club-style set-up. Players had different roles and responsibilities at their clubs, so I told them that when they came to Northern Ireland, we would do things our way. “We were direct and focused on set-pieces. We concentrated on the things a smaller nation needs to do well against the bigger teams. A few players weren’t prepared to buy into that, but the majority were. “Crucially, we had David Healy. Northern Ireland had gone around 13 games without scoring before I took over, and David had played in all of them. I gave him opportunities, he started scoring, and that set us on a fantastic run.” When you first took charge of Northern Ireland, they were 124th in the world and from there you led them to an all-time high of 27th. Does that achievement mean even more with hindsight? “Raising any team by almost 100 places is a phenomenal achievement. I don’t think it was fully recognised outside Northern Ireland because it’s a small country, but it was a tremendous effort by the players, backroom staff and everyone involved. “Over three-and-a-half years, we went from where we started to topping our qualifying group and beating Spain. We were one of the last teams to beat them before their remarkable run of more than 30 games without defeat. David Healy also finished as the group’s leading goalscorer. “One of my regrets is that I wasn’t able to see it through. I believe we could have qualified if I’d been allowed to do both jobs. “It’s difficult to turn down the Premier League, particularly when you’re managing Northern Ireland, and there’s such a difference financially. You aspire to work at that level, and three years earlier I’d been sacked by a team in the third division. To get that opportunity and then win a Premier League award was huge. “But, in hindsight, I wish I’d pushed harder to do both jobs. During an international break, I remember sitting in New York for three days while the club’s playing side effectively shut down. I thought, ‘I could have been managing Northern Ireland this weekend. Instead, I’m going shopping.’ “I’d much rather have been in a dugout somewhere, helping Northern Ireland qualify.” How do you reflect on your time at Fulham? “I just wasn’t there long enough to achieve what I wanted. I kept up a team that looked destined for relegation, but then there was a major clear-out and, by Christmas, the board was panicking. “Looking back at some of the board meetings, there were people suggesting we should get through the transfer window and see how things developed. Others were concerned about the changes I’d made. “If I’d known a complete reset would be judged over such a short period, perhaps I wouldn’t have made so many changes. But you live and learn.” Some of the players you signed or gave debuts to later helped Fulham reach the Europa League final under Roy Hodgson. Does that show what might have been possible with more time? “There were about six players in that starting XI whom I’d either signed or given their debuts to. Danny Murphy was one of them. “So, in that respect, I hadn’t exactly failed. I just wasn’t given enough time. That’s the problem in the Premier League: if you’re the person a club can afford to sack, it makes the decision easier. “We escaped relegation by the skin of our teeth on the final day, with Diomansy Kamara, another of my signings, causing havoc at Manchester City. I think we could have turned the corner, but it’s all ifs, buts and maybes. If you’re not given the opportunity, you can only speculate.” After your spell in Greece, did you expect another managerial opportunity, or do you have regrets about how your career ended? “If you’d told me that was going to be my last job, I’d have said it couldn’t be true. I took over in Greece for two months and got the team to a respectable finish. A Greek journalist told me I’d get a good job, but I was sitting there thinking it might be my last. “There were jobs I didn’t want because I wasn’t looking to return to the lower leagues. I’d done that when I started out, and those opportunities are for younger managers building their careers. “I also applied for international jobs where I thought I had a chance, but despite what I’d achieved with Northern Ireland, the opportunities didn’t come. “It was frustrating because I felt I was at the peak of my powers. I’d kept Barnet up, helped teams avoid relegation, reached an FA Cup semi-final and achieved what I did internationally. “A difficult couple of months at the end of my time at Fulham seemed to make people forget all the good work that had come before.” You’re best remembered by many for scoring the winning goal in Wimbledon’s 1988 FA Cup final victory over Liverpool. Looking back, do those memories mean even more given how much football has changed financially? “I think you saw similar stories at the World Cup with Cape Verde, Curaçao and Paraguay. Not everybody can be a top team. Manchester City and Arsenal operate at one level, but the majority of clubs work with far fewer resources. “Someone once said that if your win rate as a manager is 33% or above, you’re successful, whereas below 30% you’re unsuccessful. There are only a few percentage points between being considered a success and a failure. “With Wimbledon, we were underdogs, but we never saw ourselves that way. We knew we could compete because we understood our jobs. A team should be better than the sum of its parts. That’s what we were. “Football is about the team, not the individual. You saw that with the Galácticos at Real Madrid and when Paris Saint-Germain had Neymar, Messi and Mbappé. Having the biggest names doesn’t automatically make you a better team. “PSG became a more cohesive side after those individuals left, with everyone prepared to work harder for one another. That’s what football is about, but sometimes it gets lost in the cult of the individual. “The big names still have to work their socks off for the team. That’s what matters.” Scoring the winner in an FA Cup final is a dream for so many players. What was it like when the final whistle went, knowing you had scored the winning goal at Wembley? “When you’re in the moment, you don’t always realise the significance of it. When it was over, I just thought, ‘It was a really hot day. Thank God it’s over!’ “I also thought, ‘Thank God there’s only one goal, so it’ll be remembered.’ You wonder whether one goal really will be remembered. “Ironically, I’ve just been contacted by the former FA kit man, whose daughter got in touch with me on LinkedIn. He’d recently retired from England and was going through his belongings when he found a ball marked ‘1988 Cup Final’. He believes it was one of the three match balls used that day, and it was scuffed, so it had actually been used. Dave Bassett has another, and he’s going to send this one on to me. It’ll be a lovely reminder. “I’ve also spent the last six months organising my newspaper cuttings into folders for my son, highlighting the articles about my playing and managerial career. Reliving those memories has been lovely, and quite humbling. You look back and think, ‘Yeah, you did have a decent career.’” Has your son asked you about Vinnie Jones, Dennis Wise and the other big characters from that Wimbledon team? “He watched the documentary when it came out, although I didn’t think it was a true reflection of what Wimbledon was about. It was the first time he’d really understood the team, as he was too young to remember me playing. “I told him, ‘It was better than that.’ The documentary became a bit of a pastiche. “I spoke to Tom Watt, who put the original idea together, and agreed to get involved on the understanding that everybody would be paid the same. I was one of the first people interviewed. “Having watched The Last Dance about Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls during COVID, I thought Wimbledon’s story could have been told in a similar way. You could explore the individual journeys of the 11 players and the manager who came from different backgrounds to reach Wembley and win the Cup. “Instead, people who hadn’t even been at the final were given a lot of attention, and the Crazy Gang became a parody of what the team was about. I thought it was a wasted opportunity. “I told Tom afterwards that it was disappointing because nobody would remake it now. Unless I do it myself, we’ll never have our own Last Dance. The individual stories of how people like Norm from Swansea, Terry Phelan and John Scales from Bristol ended up at Wimbledon would have been fascinating.” Do you think the Crazy Gang label has sometimes overshadowed Wimbledon’s achievements on the pitch? “Unquestionably. It’s taken on a life of its own. People always ask what it was like, and I tell them it was like being at the centre of a tornado. “Everything is going around you at 100 miles an hour, but in the eye of the storm, it’s calm. That’s what Wimbledon was like. All this stuff was happening around us, but it was just our lives, and we got on with it. “The original Crazy Gang was the team bouncing between the Fourth and Third Divisions, when the really crazy stuff happened. Once we reached the top flight and the press started coming down, people realised that tipping a bucket of water over someone or playing up to the cameras would get them on the back pages. “Some people saw it as an opportunity to make names for themselves, and the media helped turn it into a caricature. The football itself sometimes got lost in the story.” Finally, Lawrie, given that you have spoken about how much you enjoyed the World Cup , particularly the underdog stories. Do you still have the appetite for football, and would you consider returning to management? “I do. I look at the African countries and think one of them could win the World Cup in the not-too-distant future. They have the athleticism, ability, and players competing at the highest level. They just need someone to point them in the right direction, as I said about Cape Verde. “Look at Senegal and what Morocco have achieved. I think one of those countries could produce a real shock and get close to a World Cup final if managed correctly. “With the tournament expanded to 48 teams, there are more opportunities, although qualifying will still be difficult. I’m going to look around and see if anyone is interested in a manager with international experience. “My friend Stephen Constantine is managing Rwanda, so I have an introduction into that part of the world. I’ll explore what opportunities might be available. “Being in your sixties isn’t that old these days, especially when you could potentially have another 20 or 30 years ahead of you. I was thinking about it the other day, and I’m going to have a look and see if anybody’s interested.”